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**Possible new ammo system, please vote!**


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Poll: New ammo system (876 member(s) have cast votes)

Change over or stay the same?

  1. I like the way ammo and magazines are handled currently (114 votes [13.01%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.01%

  2. Voted I like the way the new ammo system sounds (698 votes [79.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 79.68%

  3. Voted I don't mind either way (64 votes [7.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.31%

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#41 plastic31

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 10:28 AM

I like the concept of being able to split a 20 round 7.62 into two 10 round 7.62. So if you have a bolt action you can still pick up 20 rounders and use them. Another thing that is cool is if you have 2 7.62 mags one with 9 round left and another with 2 rounds left you can combine them into one mag with 11 rounds. I think it would be neat but will take a lot of getting used to.

 

I am assuming, and I may be wrong, but to do that you will have to empty one (with some possible slow animation) and then use the loose bullets to load the other (another slow animation). I don't think it would be the right click, select combine from drop down, instant new mag.

 

and to take a 20 and turn it into 2 10's, you would have had to of found two empty 10 round mags somewhere first before you can load them up.

 

plus that is a lot of empty mags you are going to be carrying around while looking for single rounds to load up in there. I would assume they take up the same volumetric space empty or full, so bag space management is going to be a lot more of a bitch.


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#42 GasT

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:01 AM

Id say keep it simple here and stay with the old.. You already have food/water, vehicle┬┤s and stashes to maintain.

 

How hardcore do the Devs want the mod to be? It already takes quite a lot of time if you want to use the whole mod.


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#43 BobDigi

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:48 AM

 i like the new style, just adds more to the whole experience imo.


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#44 ElPablo

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:53 AM

I would keep it simple to start with as BIS could get it wrong. Then get creative once it has proved.


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#45 mizifih

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:56 AM

You guys must keep in mind that shit storm is coming for everyone, so we all will struggle with backpack capacity, ammo, mags, reload times, looting and whatnot. Or not, maybe we all will master this shit like bosses! If the change comes, and pool results shows that it will, embrace it!
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#46 Valtiel

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:59 PM

Thanks for the quick feedback guys, especially BadContrakt's post. I'll attempt to address as many questions as I can, i'll use some hypothetical scenarios that will hopefully answer chunks of questions at once. 

 

First, item weight will handled fairly simply although there are some limitations. Bullets will be light so finding individual ones will not be too much of an encumbrance. Single bullets will be the least common anyway as they will be saved for more rare and powerful ammo types. Once a mag is created it will have the same weight as the full mag, even if it has only one bullet in it. This is an unfortunate Arma limitation but it means that will always have room for that mag once it is created as it will not increase as bullets are added to it. 

 

You will have to have empty mags, you can not split one 20 round magazine into two 10 round magazines unless you actually have two empty 10 round magazines. Unloading a 20 round magazine will simply place those rounds into an ammo type specific box where all individual bullets will be stored. For example, if you have a 20 round 7.62 and a 10 round 7.62 Mk316 and you want to unload all those mags because you wish to store the bullets differently, you would end up with an empty 20 round mag, an empty 10 round mag, a box of 7.62 bullets, and a box of 7.62 Mk316 bullets. Different bullet types, even of the same caliber, will always be stored separately and will be stored in ammo boxes if they are not in magazines. Weapons without external magazines will be loaded from these boxes. If you have an M24A1 and a box of 30 7.62 rounds, you will be able to load that directly into your weapon as though it were a magazine and it will simply take what it needs from the box (5 rounds) to fill the weapon. This may allow me to do away with the single bullet idea and just stick to ammo boxes, not sure yet. If they stay, single bullets will be loaded the same way mags are by scroll wheeling and selecting the single bullet from the reload drop down. 

 

 


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#47 kickrock

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:07 PM

Curious if this new system would allow a situation where you could hoard a bunch of red tape 7.62, unload all of those 5-round mags, and then repack those loose red tape rounds into empty 20-round mags...or into a 100 round box for a Zafir. In the former, it would take an average 7.62 battle rifle to the next step, making it far more powerful. In the latter, it might actually spell doom in quick fashion for helis. Or is that not intended functionality?

That would basically be the same thing as adding the 9mm Over Pressure rounds into that frikin MP7 SMG. While that would be tasty for someone who spent more time away from military bases I can see how this would be a terrible idea. ESPECIALLY in the case of a Zafir putting 100 rounds of sheer  terror into the side of a helicopter. The damn thing is already broken enough, but we're adding the option for more damage on top of it? Great in terms of practicality, and I would love to do this for the sheer novelty. You'd bet your ass if this is implemented I'm going to partake in the fun. But I do believe that would be broken as all hell for the sake of balance in the game.  An easy fix if that is not intended, and this may already be the case because I'm not hearing much on it from the devs is to make the magazine specific to the type of ammunition being loaded in, all the way down to the specifics. I know that this is unrealistic as you can put 115gr 9mm in the same magazine as you would 124gr. Basically, you find +P+ 9mm ammunition you can only put it into a green tape mag, signifying it is 9mm over pressure. You find the M80A1 rounds you can only put them into a Red Tape 7.62 magazine, signifying the specific ammunition the weapon is holding. As such you cannot blast kids in the face with an SMG loaded with +P+ and not abuse the hell out of a gun (Zafir) that already bends the line of being broken.  Again, I am all for the idea and am curious to see how it will play out. As with the traitor flagging system we all will need to understand that it is a work in progress and there will be issues with it right away. 


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#48 plastic31

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:08 PM

sounds more enticing. My last question, reload/unload animation and time? 

the shotty gets my balls blown off during reload all the time. But I do like the thought of sitting down in cover before an op, loading up all your mags so they are good to go, and then having to manage that engagement based on your load out.  I also like being able to share half a mag with someone in a pinch.

 

 


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#49 Marcan3308

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:49 PM

New ammo sounds great. Definitely more realistic.


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#50 Linkn

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:49 PM

I would imagin, it would work something like this:

 

You have 5 empty 30 round mags of 5.56, and a box of 300 rounds of 5.56. You then go and reload those mags from the box, leaving you with 5 30round mags filled and a box of 150 rounds. These mags can be used as we use them atm. Allso you will get a scroll wheel option to "load in 1round 5.56. That way leaving you with one mag chaimbered.


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#51 Bonedog

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 02:57 PM

I'll spend quite a lot of time in a given game session reorganizing backpacks and cache's to have a more realistic purpose, ie. Guns and cereal in the same container? unless you like the taste of gunpowder residue on your rice crunchies, you probably wouldn't do that IRL. That, to me, is fun with a game like this.

 

No one with common sense would walk into a fire fighting with half loaded mags mixed with full mags. In the heat of battle, knowing how many shots you have left can make all the difference. Are you sure you loaded the FULL mag into your gun? will my weapon go click when I round the corner and open fire on this enemy?  I see where this system could bring real feeling consequence to not being prepared. So if we are simulating a zombie apocalypse SURVIVAL situation, we probably enjoy the fantasy behind scrounging around for all the little things and seeing how well we can prepare for those chance encounters right?

 

Would there be restriction on the maximum number of any give ammo type placed in the ammo box? or is it a maximum total number of all ammo in said box? answered above.

 

 

 

Also, Rounds that would not mix:

Old NATO 5.56

NATO 5.56

Redband 5.56

yellowband 5.56

 

If these can all go into the same magazine but not at the same time, the color band thing may work as long as it is synchronous across the board, no custom color banding. If I were to loot your corpse and see a chartreuse/magenta/sapphire banded magazine, wtf is that to me?

 

/rant

So in short, I like the idea of the system, I HATE the bullet quality BS which that "other" zombie beta game uses. A stack is ruined because 1 bullet shell is dented, break the stack down by half each time till you get to the last pair to get rid of the one bad one.  It is tedious for the sake of being tedious, because they lost the creative process involved with adding any other meaningful content into their design to provide additional hours of gameplay.

//rant

 

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#52 Guest_deathlyrage_*

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:42 PM

This system isnt designed to make stupid long reloading animations. I certainly dont want to spend all day loading in mags. It would just give players more options in terms of mag management. The reason why some certain types are not combined is because you would loose the benefits. Its way to much saving a mag with a mix of different quality and or special bullets. Just think about that. It's like saving the contents of a bacpack in a crate.
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#53 gianni001

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:56 PM

new way

 

much much more tasteful.

 

You could also make magazines for rare weapons, really rare but ammo a bit prevalent, so you may have a 417 recon with 1 mag, but have 30 rounds, this would change combat dramatically, with this change I think this needs to happen, mags for rare weapons should be rare.

 

If im understanding correct, it means if we found a mag of 7.62 20 (standard) we can empty the ammo and use that ammo in ou Mk48 mod 1 mags then leave the empty 7.62 20 round mag on the ground.

 

Right?

 

love it, 


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#54 xGinoCazinox

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:09 PM

if it comes, will the new system be already in the patch this weekend? 


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#55 rotoplooker

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:30 PM

I like the sound of it but my worry is that looting will take forever. Yes, this echoes many peoples thoughts when containers were added and that turned out to be nothing, so I guess we just have to have a bit of faith? Or something.


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#56 isavelives24

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:12 PM

Love it, gets my vote... I would like to see rare ammunition spawn a bit more,  even in singles.... 

 

Makes ammo management and knowing the ballistics of your ammo in your rifle all the more important though...


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#57 Myakuhaku

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:04 PM

Another question, If i were able to find and unload 200 red tape 7.62 bullets could i then use all thoes red tape 7.62 in lets say a mk48 or zafir?


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#58 PAPATOP

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:19 PM

It looks like the votes are leaning to a change. For the most part im ok with it, i like the idea of topping off partially loaded mags, but in a desperate situation sometimes just pulling out your primary is an invitation to a quick death. If we're really going for realism, would you really be stopping(literally sprint to full stop) to think (use mousewheel because keybinds are still a wip) handgun, hatchet or rifle? No, you would intuitively grab the weapon you needed while moving for cover maybe even returning fire on the way. My vote is to leave out new features until bugs like weapon switching are ironed out or i develop the skills to adapt :P

 

Disclaimer: I am an Arma noob, inventories, scroll menus and tactics are foreign to me, but im learning. Thanks for the opportunity to give feedback.


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#59 Guest_deathlyrage_*

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:14 PM

 My vote is to leave out new features until bugs like weapon switching are ironed out or i develop the skills to adapt :P

http://feedback.arma3.com/


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#60 Valtiel

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:17 PM

I just wanted to address some concerns about balance. You will not suddenly be able to acquire a 200 round box of M80A1 7.62 ammo and run around liquidating vehicles. The rarity will still be high, probably higher than before and you can currently load 20/30 round M80A1 mags into LMGs so it is not going to be terribly different. Yes you could theoretically amass enough small boxes of M80A1 ammo to fill an LMG box but that will be almost prohibitively difficult and time consuming, you'll likely only be able to get a hold of as much as you can currently. 

 

As Deathly stated, there will be no additional animations with this feature, it will all be carried out in the menus. You will still be able to load ammo into your weapon the same way you can now via scroll wheel HUD menu, you will just need to make sure you have the appropriate magazines loaded and ready. It seems like the likely strategy will be to keep ammo boxes and mags at your camp and take only what you need with you when you go out.  I'm glad that most of you are seeing the intent behind this which is to add depth to gun play and PvP in general. You will need to plan your ammo usage and take stock after engagements. You will also obviously be able to consolidate magazines as 2 full mags is a lot more manageable than 4 half full ones. 

 

 

If im understanding correct, it means if we found a mag of 7.62 20 (standard) we can empty the ammo and use that ammo in ou Mk48 mod 1 mags then leave the empty 7.62 20 round mag on the ground.

 

Right?

 

love it, 

 

Correct.

 

Another question, If i were able to find and unload 200 red tape 7.62 bullets could i then use all thoes red tape 7.62 in lets say a mk48 or zafir?

 

Yes, but having that quantity of M80A1 ammo will be unlikely, see above. 


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